Discussion:
Multi response sets in PSPP
(too old to reply)
Michał Dubrawski
2015-11-06 10:24:18 UTC
Permalink
Hi,

If the information here is up to date then we have MRSETS command
implemented in PSPP
http://www.gnu.org/software/pspp/manual/pspp.html#MRSETS

Is there any way to display these MRSETS in the PSPP output - frequences,
percentages or in corss tabs? I'm only using thses MRSETS in SPSS in
CTables. I am aware that CTables are not implemented in PSPP and since it
is very complicated won't rather be implemented in the nearest future.

If it is not possible to display multi response, maybe implementation of MULT
RESPONSE command would be a solution? Is it possoble to implement it?

It is has an option to display frequences, percentages and even cross
tabulation. I think that it would be very useful for users, what do you
think?

Thanks again to all the developers and people involved with PSPP project
for all your work.

kind regards,

Michał Dubrawski
ftr
2015-11-06 13:56:23 UTC
Permalink
On 06/11/2015 11:24, Michał Dubrawski wrote:
> Hi,
>
> If the information here is up to date then we have MRSETS command
> implemented in PSPP
> http://www.gnu.org/software/pspp/manual/pspp.html#MRSETS
>
> Is there any way to display these MRSETS in the PSPP output -
> frequences, percentages or in corss tabs? I'm only using thses MRSETS
> in SPSS in CTables. I am aware that CTables are not implemented in
> PSPP and since it is very complicated won't rather be implemented in
> the nearest future.
>
> If it is not possible to display multi response, maybe implementation
> of |MULT RESPONSE |command would be a solution? Is it possoble to
> implement it?
>
> It is has an option to display frequences, percentages and even cross
> tabulation. I think that it would be very useful for users, what do
> you think?
>
> Thanks again to all the developers and people involved with PSPP
> project for all your work.
>
> kind regards,
>
> Michał Dubrawski
>
Hi Michal,

survey analyst NEED methods to study multiple-response variables. So I
strongly support the idea to implement a Mult Response command.

The help text ends with this cryptic sentence:
> Otherwise, multiple response sets are currently used only by third
> party software.

Dear maintainers, would you please be so kind to explain which third
party software is meant ?

TIA
-ftr
Robert Lutener
2015-11-06 17:06:14 UTC
Permalink
CTABLES is probably the most valuable feature of SPSS and is used by the vast majority of people that buy the SPSS license. It is a real shame that PSPP doesn't have CTABLES as this would be a major factor in more widespread use of this open source solution.

----- Original Message -----
From: "ftr" <***@free.fr>
To: "pspp-users" <pspp-***@gnu.org>
Sent: Friday, November 6, 2015 5:56:23 AM
Subject: Re: Multi response sets in PSPP

On 06/11/2015 11:24, Michał Dubrawski wrote:



Hi,

If the information here is up to date then we have MRSETS command implemented in PSPP
http://www.gnu.org/software/pspp/manual/pspp.html#MRSETS

Is there any way to display these MRSETS in the PSPP output - frequences, percentages or in corss tabs? I'm only using thses MRSETS in SPSS in CTables. I am aware that CTables are not implemented in PSPP and since it is very complicated won't rather be implemented in the nearest future.

If it is not possible to display multi response, maybe implementation of MULT RESPONSE command would be a solution? Is it possoble to implement it?

It is has an option to display frequences, percentages and even cross tabulation. I think that it would be very useful for users, what do you think?

Thanks again to all the developers and people involved with PSPP project for all your work.

kind regards,

Michał Dubrawski

Hi Michal,

survey analyst NEED methods to study multiple-response variables. So I strongly support the idea to implement a Mult Response command.

The help text ends with this cryptic sentence:


Otherwise, multiple response sets are currently used only by third party software.
Dear maintainers, would you please be so kind to explain which third party software is meant ?

TIA
-ftr


_______________________________________________
Pspp-users mailing list
Pspp-***@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pspp-users
Charles Johnson
2015-11-06 17:32:52 UTC
Permalink
I agree with the suggestion. Baccalaureate courses, biostatistics and generally in the early years of social sciences, these tools are very useful.

I hope the developers can add to your to-do list, considering that they use their free time to this project.


CJT


----------------------------------------
> Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2015 10:06:14 -0700
> From: ***@consumerscan.ca
> To: ***@free.fr
> Subject: Re: Multi response sets in PSPP
> CC: pspp-***@gnu.org
>
> CTABLES is probably the most valuable feature of SPSS and is used by the vast majority of people that buy the SPSS license. It is a real shame that PSPP doesn't have CTABLES as this would be a major factor in more widespread use of this open source solution.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "ftr" <***@free.fr>
> To: "pspp-users" <pspp-***@gnu.org>
> Sent: Friday, November 6, 2015 5:56:23 AM
> Subject: Re: Multi response sets in PSPP
>
> On 06/11/2015 11:24, Michał Dubrawski wrote:
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
> If the information here is up to date then we have MRSETS command implemented in PSPP
> http://www.gnu.org/software/pspp/manual/pspp.html#MRSETS
>
> Is there any way to display these MRSETS in the PSPP output - frequences, percentages or in corss tabs? I'm only using thses MRSETS in SPSS in CTables. I am aware that CTables are not implemented in PSPP and since it is very complicated won't rather be implemented in the nearest future.
>
> If it is not possible to display multi response, maybe implementation of MULT RESPONSE command would be a solution? Is it possoble to implement it?
>
> It is has an option to display frequences, percentages and even cross tabulation. I think that it would be very useful for users, what do you think?
>
> Thanks again to all the developers and people involved with PSPP project for all your work.
>
> kind regards,
>
> Michał Dubrawski
>
> Hi Michal,
>
> survey analyst NEED methods to study multiple-response variables. So I strongly support the idea to implement a Mult Response command.
>
> The help text ends with this cryptic sentence:
>
>
> Otherwise, multiple response sets are currently used only by third party software.
> Dear maintainers, would you please be so kind to explain which third party software is meant ?
>
> TIA
> -ftr
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pspp-users mailing list
> Pspp-***@gnu.org
> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pspp-users
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pspp-users mailing list
> Pspp-***@gnu.org
> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pspp-users
Matthias Faeth
2015-11-06 17:32:53 UTC
Permalink
I strongly support Robert's view. However, the maintainers seem to be more
interested in statistics than plain old tabulation. Has anyone an idea how
to implement even a stripped down version of CTABLES?

Matthias FÀth
Im Mediapark 12
50670 Köln
t: 0221-2907973
m: 0171-9832175
e: ***@gmx.de

2015-11-06 18:06 GMT+01:00 Robert Lutener <***@consumerscan.ca>:

> CTABLES is probably the most valuable feature of SPSS and is used by the
> vast majority of people that buy the SPSS license. It is a real shame that
> PSPP doesn't have CTABLES as this would be a major factor in more
> widespread use of this open source solution.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "ftr" <***@free.fr>
> To: "pspp-users" <pspp-***@gnu.org>
> Sent: Friday, November 6, 2015 5:56:23 AM
> Subject: Re: Multi response sets in PSPP
>
> On 06/11/2015 11:24, Michał Dubrawski wrote:
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
> If the information here is up to date then we have MRSETS command
> implemented in PSPP
> http://www.gnu.org/software/pspp/manual/pspp.html#MRSETS
>
> Is there any way to display these MRSETS in the PSPP output - frequences,
> percentages or in corss tabs? I'm only using thses MRSETS in SPSS in
> CTables. I am aware that CTables are not implemented in PSPP and since it
> is very complicated won't rather be implemented in the nearest future.
>
> If it is not possible to display multi response, maybe implementation of
> MULT RESPONSE command would be a solution? Is it possoble to implement it?
>
> It is has an option to display frequences, percentages and even cross
> tabulation. I think that it would be very useful for users, what do you
> think?
>
> Thanks again to all the developers and people involved with PSPP project
> for all your work.
>
> kind regards,
>
> Michał Dubrawski
>
> Hi Michal,
>
> survey analyst NEED methods to study multiple-response variables. So I
> strongly support the idea to implement a Mult Response command.
>
> The help text ends with this cryptic sentence:
>
>
> Otherwise, multiple response sets are currently used only by third party
> software.
> Dear maintainers, would you please be so kind to explain which third party
> software is meant ?
>
> TIA
> -ftr
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pspp-users mailing list
> Pspp-***@gnu.org
> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pspp-users
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pspp-users mailing list
> Pspp-***@gnu.org
> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pspp-users
>
Robert Lutener
2015-11-06 18:00:20 UTC
Permalink
There is no interest from the developers to do this. A while back someone even offered to put down $500 of their own money and others volunteered a few hundred each on top to bring this about but it was stated that there is no interest from the developers to implement this functionality. Which is kind of weird because CTABLES is the key reason why the Canadian government uses SPSS at CRA and a few other departments. For their stats stuff they typically use R or Stata.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Matthias Faeth" <***@gmx.de>
To: "robertl" <***@consumerscan.ca>
Cc: "ftr" <***@free.fr>, "pspp-users" <pspp-***@gnu.org>
Sent: Friday, November 6, 2015 9:32:53 AM
Subject: Re: Multi response sets in PSPP

I strongly support Robert's view. However, the maintainers seem to be more
interested in statistics than plain old tabulation. Has anyone an idea how
to implement even a stripped down version of CTABLES?

Matthias Fäth
Im Mediapark 12
50670 Köln
t: 0221-2907973
m: 0171-9832175
e: ***@gmx.de

2015-11-06 18:06 GMT+01:00 Robert Lutener <***@consumerscan.ca>:

> CTABLES is probably the most valuable feature of SPSS and is used by the
> vast majority of people that buy the SPSS license. It is a real shame that
> PSPP doesn't have CTABLES as this would be a major factor in more
> widespread use of this open source solution.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "ftr" <***@free.fr>
> To: "pspp-users" <pspp-***@gnu.org>
> Sent: Friday, November 6, 2015 5:56:23 AM
> Subject: Re: Multi response sets in PSPP
>
> On 06/11/2015 11:24, Michał Dubrawski wrote:
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
> If the information here is up to date then we have MRSETS command
> implemented in PSPP
> http://www.gnu.org/software/pspp/manual/pspp.html#MRSETS
>
> Is there any way to display these MRSETS in the PSPP output - frequences,
> percentages or in corss tabs? I'm only using thses MRSETS in SPSS in
> CTables. I am aware that CTables are not implemented in PSPP and since it
> is very complicated won't rather be implemented in the nearest future.
>
> If it is not possible to display multi response, maybe implementation of
> MULT RESPONSE command would be a solution? Is it possoble to implement it?
>
> It is has an option to display frequences, percentages and even cross
> tabulation. I think that it would be very useful for users, what do you
> think?
>
> Thanks again to all the developers and people involved with PSPP project
> for all your work.
>
> kind regards,
>
> Michał Dubrawski
>
> Hi Michal,
>
> survey analyst NEED methods to study multiple-response variables. So I
> strongly support the idea to implement a Mult Response command.
>
> The help text ends with this cryptic sentence:
>
>
> Otherwise, multiple response sets are currently used only by third party
> software.
> Dear maintainers, would you please be so kind to explain which third party
> software is meant ?
>
> TIA
> -ftr
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pspp-users mailing list
> Pspp-***@gnu.org
> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pspp-users
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pspp-users mailing list
> Pspp-***@gnu.org
> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pspp-users
>
Alan Mead
2015-11-06 18:43:14 UTC
Permalink
I recently added a small feature to PSPP, and I think if someone had
money and wanted to fund a feature, it might be possible to do so.

For my small feature, I had to complete some paperwork to assign my
copyright to FSF. Then I added the feature to the code and tested it.
Then I modified the documentation. Finally, I delivered a patch for the
source code and the documentation. John Darrington and/or Benn Pfaff
turned my test information into actual tests.

Modifying PSPP to perform some function and modifying PSPPIRE to
configure that function are two different (independent) steps. My change
hasn't been added to PSPPIRE (the GUI dialog boxes) and some users would
consider a feature not to exist if it's not accessible through menus, so
you should probably add that as a last step.

So, if I were paying someone (like a freelancer or student), I'd start
by modifying the documentation and writing test cases. The documentation
would be for their use and the test cases would determine that they'd
done the work correctly.

It seems like you'd need to coordinate/negotiate with either Ben Pfaff
or the FSF to ensure that the person paying for the work will own the
copyright and be able to transfer it to the FSF (and, of course, it will
be necessary to do so if you wanted the feature added to PSPP). I assume
this isn't insurmountable.

Also, for technical reasons, it might be easier if the developer and
whomever was paying for the work were using PSPP on Linux. It's harder
to generate Windows binaries (but maybe the freelancer could manage
this) and it's relatively easy on Linux to apply patches and compile
PSPP to test the changes. I'm using CentOS 6 and everything works great
except I cannot compile PSPPIRE (due to limitations in CentOS 6 versions
of some libraries). I think John Darrington uses Debian or Ubuntu. I
think CentOS/RHEL 7 would also work better.

I'm sure CTABLES would be a lot of work (not a small feature), but the
actual changes to the PSPP source code might fit into a modest budget.
You'd have to get a price for an inexpensive freelance coder.

-Alan


On 11/6/2015 12:00 PM, Robert Lutener wrote:
> There is no interest from the developers to do this. A while back someone even offered to put down $500 of their own money and others volunteered a few hundred each on top to bring this about but it was stated that there is no interest from the developers to implement this functionality. Which is kind of weird because CTABLES is the key reason why the Canadian government uses SPSS at CRA and a few other departments. For their stats stuff they typically use R or Stata.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Matthias Faeth" <***@gmx.de>
> To: "robertl" <***@consumerscan.ca>
> Cc: "ftr" <***@free.fr>, "pspp-users" <pspp-***@gnu.org>
> Sent: Friday, November 6, 2015 9:32:53 AM
> Subject: Re: Multi response sets in PSPP
>
> I strongly support Robert's view. However, the maintainers seem to be more
> interested in statistics than plain old tabulation. Has anyone an idea how
> to implement even a stripped down version of CTABLES?
>
> Matthias Fäth
> Im Mediapark 12
> 50670 Köln
> t: 0221-2907973
> m: 0171-9832175
> e: ***@gmx.de
>
> 2015-11-06 18:06 GMT+01:00 Robert Lutener <***@consumerscan.ca>:
>
>> CTABLES is probably the most valuable feature of SPSS and is used by the
>> vast majority of people that buy the SPSS license. It is a real shame that
>> PSPP doesn't have CTABLES as this would be a major factor in more
>> widespread use of this open source solution.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "ftr" <***@free.fr>
>> To: "pspp-users" <pspp-***@gnu.org>
>> Sent: Friday, November 6, 2015 5:56:23 AM
>> Subject: Re: Multi response sets in PSPP
>>
>> On 06/11/2015 11:24, Michał Dubrawski wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> If the information here is up to date then we have MRSETS command
>> implemented in PSPP
>> http://www.gnu.org/software/pspp/manual/pspp.html#MRSETS
>>
>> Is there any way to display these MRSETS in the PSPP output - frequences,
>> percentages or in corss tabs? I'm only using thses MRSETS in SPSS in
>> CTables. I am aware that CTables are not implemented in PSPP and since it
>> is very complicated won't rather be implemented in the nearest future.
>>
>> If it is not possible to display multi response, maybe implementation of
>> MULT RESPONSE command would be a solution? Is it possoble to implement it?
>>
>> It is has an option to display frequences, percentages and even cross
>> tabulation. I think that it would be very useful for users, what do you
>> think?
>>
>> Thanks again to all the developers and people involved with PSPP project
>> for all your work.
>>
>> kind regards,
>>
>> Michał Dubrawski
>>
>> Hi Michal,
>>
>> survey analyst NEED methods to study multiple-response variables. So I
>> strongly support the idea to implement a Mult Response command.
>>
>> The help text ends with this cryptic sentence:
>>
>>
>> Otherwise, multiple response sets are currently used only by third party
>> software.
>> Dear maintainers, would you please be so kind to explain which third party
>> software is meant ?
>>
>> TIA
>> -ftr
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pspp-users mailing list
>> Pspp-***@gnu.org
>> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pspp-users
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pspp-users mailing list
>> Pspp-***@gnu.org
>> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pspp-users
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Pspp-users mailing list
> Pspp-***@gnu.org
> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pspp-users

--

Alan D. Mead, Ph.D.
President, Talent Algorithms Inc.

science + technology = better workers

+815.588.3846 (Office)
+267.334.4143 (Mobile)

http://www.alanmead.org

Announcing the Journal of Computerized Adaptive Testing (JCAT), a
peer-reviewed electronic journal designed to advance the science and
practice of computerized adaptive testing: http://www.iacat.org/jcat
Frans Houweling
2015-11-06 18:47:58 UTC
Permalink
Hi all,
I am not one of the - bless them - developers. I am a old TABLES
user. Lately (20 years or so) the output is not considered "presentation
quality" anymore. So I find myself exporting the TABLES output in order
to get it into Microsoft Office stuff, where AGGREGATE + SAVE TRANSLATE
would in fact be a shorter track.
So my question is: why do you consider CTABLES such a useful feature? I
don't want to fuel any argument, just understand if workarounds exist or
could be more easily developed.
Regards
frans

On 06/11/2015 19:00, Robert Lutener wrote:
> There is no interest from the developers to do this. A while back someone even offered to put down $500 of their own money and others volunteered a few hundred each on top to bring this about but it was stated that there is no interest from the developers to implement this functionality. Which is kind of weird because CTABLES is the key reason why the Canadian government uses SPSS at CRA and a few other departments. For their stats stuff they typically use R or Stata.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Matthias Faeth" <***@gmx.de>
> To: "robertl" <***@consumerscan.ca>
> Cc: "ftr" <***@free.fr>, "pspp-users" <pspp-***@gnu.org>
> Sent: Friday, November 6, 2015 9:32:53 AM
> Subject: Re: Multi response sets in PSPP
>
> I strongly support Robert's view. However, the maintainers seem to be more
> interested in statistics than plain old tabulation. Has anyone an idea how
> to implement even a stripped down version of CTABLES?
>
> Matthias Fäth
> Im Mediapark 12
> 50670 Köln
> t: 0221-2907973
> m: 0171-9832175
> e: ***@gmx.de
>
> 2015-11-06 18:06 GMT+01:00 Robert Lutener <***@consumerscan.ca>:
>
>> CTABLES is probably the most valuable feature of SPSS and is used by the
>> vast majority of people that buy the SPSS license. It is a real shame that
>> PSPP doesn't have CTABLES as this would be a major factor in more
>> widespread use of this open source solution.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "ftr" <***@free.fr>
>> To: "pspp-users" <pspp-***@gnu.org>
>> Sent: Friday, November 6, 2015 5:56:23 AM
>> Subject: Re: Multi response sets in PSPP
>>
>> On 06/11/2015 11:24, Michał Dubrawski wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> If the information here is up to date then we have MRSETS command
>> implemented in PSPP
>> http://www.gnu.org/software/pspp/manual/pspp.html#MRSETS
>>
>> Is there any way to display these MRSETS in the PSPP output - frequences,
>> percentages or in corss tabs? I'm only using thses MRSETS in SPSS in
>> CTables. I am aware that CTables are not implemented in PSPP and since it
>> is very complicated won't rather be implemented in the nearest future.
>>
>> If it is not possible to display multi response, maybe implementation of
>> MULT RESPONSE command would be a solution? Is it possoble to implement it?
>>
>> It is has an option to display frequences, percentages and even cross
>> tabulation. I think that it would be very useful for users, what do you
>> think?
>>
>> Thanks again to all the developers and people involved with PSPP project
>> for all your work.
>>
>> kind regards,
>>
>> Michał Dubrawski
>>
>> Hi Michal,
>>
>> survey analyst NEED methods to study multiple-response variables. So I
>> strongly support the idea to implement a Mult Response command.
>>
>> The help text ends with this cryptic sentence:
>>
>>
>> Otherwise, multiple response sets are currently used only by third party
>> software.
>> Dear maintainers, would you please be so kind to explain which third party
>> software is meant ?
>>
>> TIA
>> -ftr
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pspp-users mailing list
>> Pspp-***@gnu.org
>> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pspp-users
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pspp-users mailing list
>> Pspp-***@gnu.org
>> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pspp-users
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Pspp-users mailing list
> Pspp-***@gnu.org
> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pspp-users
Robert Lutener
2015-11-06 18:54:19 UTC
Permalink
The big reason is for output for complex subheadings and big banner reports. This is what everyone in my industry uses SPSS for. Actually, it is the only thing that they use it for. In terms of presentation I know it is ugly as all hell but there really isn't a substitute for the CTABLES functionality out there especially when it comes to big survey banner reports that involve subcategory reporting. For multiple response questions you really can't beat the MRSETS CTABLES combination.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Frans Houweling" <***@email.it>
To: "pspp-users" <pspp-***@gnu.org>
Sent: Friday, November 6, 2015 10:47:58 AM
Subject: Re: Multi response sets in PSPP

Hi all,
I am not one of the - bless them - developers. I am a old TABLES
user. Lately (20 years or so) the output is not considered "presentation
quality" anymore. So I find myself exporting the TABLES output in order
to get it into Microsoft Office stuff, where AGGREGATE + SAVE TRANSLATE
would in fact be a shorter track.
So my question is: why do you consider CTABLES such a useful feature? I
don't want to fuel any argument, just understand if workarounds exist or
could be more easily developed.
Regards
frans

On 06/11/2015 19:00, Robert Lutener wrote:
> There is no interest from the developers to do this. A while back someone even offered to put down $500 of their own money and others volunteered a few hundred each on top to bring this about but it was stated that there is no interest from the developers to implement this functionality. Which is kind of weird because CTABLES is the key reason why the Canadian government uses SPSS at CRA and a few other departments. For their stats stuff they typically use R or Stata.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Matthias Faeth" <***@gmx.de>
> To: "robertl" <***@consumerscan.ca>
> Cc: "ftr" <***@free.fr>, "pspp-users" <pspp-***@gnu.org>
> Sent: Friday, November 6, 2015 9:32:53 AM
> Subject: Re: Multi response sets in PSPP
>
> I strongly support Robert's view. However, the maintainers seem to be more
> interested in statistics than plain old tabulation. Has anyone an idea how
> to implement even a stripped down version of CTABLES?
>
> Matthias Fäth
> Im Mediapark 12
> 50670 Köln
> t: 0221-2907973
> m: 0171-9832175
> e: ***@gmx.de
>
> 2015-11-06 18:06 GMT+01:00 Robert Lutener <***@consumerscan.ca>:
>
>> CTABLES is probably the most valuable feature of SPSS and is used by the
>> vast majority of people that buy the SPSS license. It is a real shame that
>> PSPP doesn't have CTABLES as this would be a major factor in more
>> widespread use of this open source solution.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "ftr" <***@free.fr>
>> To: "pspp-users" <pspp-***@gnu.org>
>> Sent: Friday, November 6, 2015 5:56:23 AM
>> Subject: Re: Multi response sets in PSPP
>>
>> On 06/11/2015 11:24, Michał Dubrawski wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> If the information here is up to date then we have MRSETS command
>> implemented in PSPP
>> http://www.gnu.org/software/pspp/manual/pspp.html#MRSETS
>>
>> Is there any way to display these MRSETS in the PSPP output - frequences,
>> percentages or in corss tabs? I'm only using thses MRSETS in SPSS in
>> CTables. I am aware that CTables are not implemented in PSPP and since it
>> is very complicated won't rather be implemented in the nearest future.
>>
>> If it is not possible to display multi response, maybe implementation of
>> MULT RESPONSE command would be a solution? Is it possoble to implement it?
>>
>> It is has an option to display frequences, percentages and even cross
>> tabulation. I think that it would be very useful for users, what do you
>> think?
>>
>> Thanks again to all the developers and people involved with PSPP project
>> for all your work.
>>
>> kind regards,
>>
>> Michał Dubrawski
>>
>> Hi Michal,
>>
>> survey analyst NEED methods to study multiple-response variables. So I
>> strongly support the idea to implement a Mult Response command.
>>
>> The help text ends with this cryptic sentence:
>>
>>
>> Otherwise, multiple response sets are currently used only by third party
>> software.
>> Dear maintainers, would you please be so kind to explain which third party
>> software is meant ?
>>
>> TIA
>> -ftr
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pspp-users mailing list
>> Pspp-***@gnu.org
>> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pspp-users
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pspp-users mailing list
>> Pspp-***@gnu.org
>> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pspp-users
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Pspp-users mailing list
> Pspp-***@gnu.org
> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pspp-users


_______________________________________________
Pspp-users mailing list
Pspp-***@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pspp-users
Frans Houweling
2015-11-06 20:18:27 UTC
Permalink
I see. In my industry, too, you defined a big banner, submitted to EDP
and waited at the continuous paper printer for the
everything-by-everything crosstabs. I bet the developers are excited.

On 06/11/2015 19:54, Robert Lutener wrote:
> The big reason is for output for complex subheadings and big banner reports. This is what everyone in my industry uses SPSS for. Actually, it is the only thing that they use it for. In terms of presentation I know it is ugly as all hell but there really isn't a substitute for the CTABLES functionality out there especially when it comes to big survey banner reports that involve subcategory reporting. For multiple response questions you really can't beat the MRSETS CTABLES combination.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Frans Houweling" <***@email.it>
> To: "pspp-users" <pspp-***@gnu.org>
> Sent: Friday, November 6, 2015 10:47:58 AM
> Subject: Re: Multi response sets in PSPP
>
> Hi all,
> I am not one of the - bless them - developers. I am a old TABLES
> user. Lately (20 years or so) the output is not considered "presentation
> quality" anymore. So I find myself exporting the TABLES output in order
> to get it into Microsoft Office stuff, where AGGREGATE + SAVE TRANSLATE
> would in fact be a shorter track.
> So my question is: why do you consider CTABLES such a useful feature? I
> don't want to fuel any argument, just understand if workarounds exist or
> could be more easily developed.
> Regards
> frans
>
> On 06/11/2015 19:00, Robert Lutener wrote:
>> There is no interest from the developers to do this. A while back someone even offered to put down $500 of their own money and others volunteered a few hundred each on top to bring this about but it was stated that there is no interest from the developers to implement this functionality. Which is kind of weird because CTABLES is the key reason why the Canadian government uses SPSS at CRA and a few other departments. For their stats stuff they typically use R or Stata.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Matthias Faeth" <***@gmx.de>
>> To: "robertl" <***@consumerscan.ca>
>> Cc: "ftr" <***@free.fr>, "pspp-users" <pspp-***@gnu.org>
>> Sent: Friday, November 6, 2015 9:32:53 AM
>> Subject: Re: Multi response sets in PSPP
>>
>> I strongly support Robert's view. However, the maintainers seem to be more
>> interested in statistics than plain old tabulation. Has anyone an idea how
>> to implement even a stripped down version of CTABLES?
>>
>> Matthias Fäth
>> Im Mediapark 12
>> 50670 Köln
>> t: 0221-2907973
>> m: 0171-9832175
>> e: ***@gmx.de
>>
>> 2015-11-06 18:06 GMT+01:00 Robert Lutener <***@consumerscan.ca>:
>>
>>> CTABLES is probably the most valuable feature of SPSS and is used by the
>>> vast majority of people that buy the SPSS license. It is a real shame that
>>> PSPP doesn't have CTABLES as this would be a major factor in more
>>> widespread use of this open source solution.
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "ftr" <***@free.fr>
>>> To: "pspp-users" <pspp-***@gnu.org>
>>> Sent: Friday, November 6, 2015 5:56:23 AM
>>> Subject: Re: Multi response sets in PSPP
>>>
>>> On 06/11/2015 11:24, Michał Dubrawski wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> If the information here is up to date then we have MRSETS command
>>> implemented in PSPP
>>> http://www.gnu.org/software/pspp/manual/pspp.html#MRSETS
>>>
>>> Is there any way to display these MRSETS in the PSPP output - frequences,
>>> percentages or in corss tabs? I'm only using thses MRSETS in SPSS in
>>> CTables. I am aware that CTables are not implemented in PSPP and since it
>>> is very complicated won't rather be implemented in the nearest future.
>>>
>>> If it is not possible to display multi response, maybe implementation of
>>> MULT RESPONSE command would be a solution? Is it possoble to implement it?
>>>
>>> It is has an option to display frequences, percentages and even cross
>>> tabulation. I think that it would be very useful for users, what do you
>>> think?
>>>
>>> Thanks again to all the developers and people involved with PSPP project
>>> for all your work.
>>>
>>> kind regards,
>>>
>>> Michał Dubrawski
>>>
>>> Hi Michal,
>>>
>>> survey analyst NEED methods to study multiple-response variables. So I
>>> strongly support the idea to implement a Mult Response command.
>>>
>>> The help text ends with this cryptic sentence:
>>>
>>>
>>> Otherwise, multiple response sets are currently used only by third party
>>> software.
>>> Dear maintainers, would you please be so kind to explain which third party
>>> software is meant ?
>>>
>>> TIA
>>> -ftr
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Pspp-users mailing list
>>> Pspp-***@gnu.org
>>> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pspp-users
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Pspp-users mailing list
>>> Pspp-***@gnu.org
>>> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pspp-users
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pspp-users mailing list
>> Pspp-***@gnu.org
>> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pspp-users
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pspp-users mailing list
> Pspp-***@gnu.org
> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pspp-users
Charles Johnson
2015-11-06 21:04:13 UTC
Permalink
I do not think you have to use such harsh words. I insist that developers do their best in their free time.

I think we can do other initiatives such as pay to companies to do the job or make donations to commission new features to PSPP. Another great idea is to include PSPP request as part of "High Priority Free Software Projects" http://www.fsf.org/campaigns/priority-projects/. This helps take care of volunteers and developers to work on the project.

I always thought that the niche for PSPP is small, but the more experience I get the world of work, the more I see the importance of this type of software grows up.

If anyone is interested, there is an email on the website. hpp-***@gnu.org

Cheers

CJT


----------------------------------------
> Subject: Re: Multi response sets in PSPP
> To: ***@consumerscan.ca
> From: ***@email.it
> Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2015 21:18:27 +0100
> CC: pspp-***@gnu.org
>
> I see. In my industry, too, you defined a big banner, submitted to EDP
> and waited at the continuous paper printer for the
> everything-by-everything crosstabs. I bet the developers are excited.
>
> On 06/11/2015 19:54, Robert Lutener wrote:
>> The big reason is for output for complex subheadings and big banner reports. This is what everyone in my industry uses SPSS for. Actually, it is the only thing that they use it for. In terms of presentation I know it is ugly as all hell but there really isn't a substitute for the CTABLES functionality out there especially when it comes to big survey banner reports that involve subcategory reporting. For multiple response questions you really can't beat the MRSETS CTABLES combination.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Frans Houweling" <***@email.it>
>> To: "pspp-users" <pspp-***@gnu.org>
>> Sent: Friday, November 6, 2015 10:47:58 AM
>> Subject: Re: Multi response sets in PSPP
>>
>> Hi all,
>> I am not one of the - bless them - developers. I am a old TABLES
>> user. Lately (20 years or so) the output is not considered "presentation
>> quality" anymore. So I find myself exporting the TABLES output in order
>> to get it into Microsoft Office stuff, where AGGREGATE + SAVE TRANSLATE
>> would in fact be a shorter track.
>> So my question is: why do you consider CTABLES such a useful feature? I
>> don't want to fuel any argument, just understand if workarounds exist or
>> could be more easily developed.
>> Regards
>> frans
>>
>> On 06/11/2015 19:00, Robert Lutener wrote:
>>> There is no interest from the developers to do this. A while back someone even offered to put down $500 of their own money and others volunteered a few hundred each on top to bring this about but it was stated that there is no interest from the developers to implement this functionality. Which is kind of weird because CTABLES is the key reason why the Canadian government uses SPSS at CRA and a few other departments. For their stats stuff they typically use R or Stata.
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Matthias Faeth" <***@gmx.de>
>>> To: "robertl" <***@consumerscan.ca>
>>> Cc: "ftr" <***@free.fr>, "pspp-users" <pspp-***@gnu.org>
>>> Sent: Friday, November 6, 2015 9:32:53 AM
>>> Subject: Re: Multi response sets in PSPP
>>>
>>> I strongly support Robert's view. However, the maintainers seem to be more
>>> interested in statistics than plain old tabulation. Has anyone an idea how
>>> to implement even a stripped down version of CTABLES?
>>>
>>> Matthias Fäth
>>> Im Mediapark 12
>>> 50670 Köln
>>> t: 0221-2907973
>>> m: 0171-9832175
>>> e: ***@gmx.de
>>>
>>> 2015-11-06 18:06 GMT+01:00 Robert Lutener <***@consumerscan.ca>:
>>>
>>>> CTABLES is probably the most valuable feature of SPSS and is used by the
>>>> vast majority of people that buy the SPSS license. It is a real shame that
>>>> PSPP doesn't have CTABLES as this would be a major factor in more
>>>> widespread use of this open source solution.
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "ftr" <***@free.fr>
>>>> To: "pspp-users" <pspp-***@gnu.org>
>>>> Sent: Friday, November 6, 2015 5:56:23 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: Multi response sets in PSPP
>>>>
>>>> On 06/11/2015 11:24, Michał Dubrawski wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> If the information here is up to date then we have MRSETS command
>>>> implemented in PSPP
>>>> http://www.gnu.org/software/pspp/manual/pspp.html#MRSETS
>>>>
>>>> Is there any way to display these MRSETS in the PSPP output - frequences,
>>>> percentages or in corss tabs? I'm only using thses MRSETS in SPSS in
>>>> CTables. I am aware that CTables are not implemented in PSPP and since it
>>>> is very complicated won't rather be implemented in the nearest future.
>>>>
>>>> If it is not possible to display multi response, maybe implementation of
>>>> MULT RESPONSE command would be a solution? Is it possoble to implement it?
>>>>
>>>> It is has an option to display frequences, percentages and even cross
>>>> tabulation. I think that it would be very useful for users, what do you
>>>> think?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks again to all the developers and people involved with PSPP project
>>>> for all your work.
>>>>
>>>> kind regards,
>>>>
>>>> Michał Dubrawski
>>>>
>>>> Hi Michal,
>>>>
>>>> survey analyst NEED methods to study multiple-response variables. So I
>>>> strongly support the idea to implement a Mult Response command.
>>>>
>>>> The help text ends with this cryptic sentence:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Otherwise, multiple response sets are currently used only by third party
>>>> software.
>>>> Dear maintainers, would you please be so kind to explain which third party
>>>> software is meant ?
>>>>
>>>> TIA
>>>> -ftr
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Pspp-users mailing list
>>>> Pspp-***@gnu.org
>>>> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pspp-users
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Pspp-users mailing list
>>>> Pspp-***@gnu.org
>>>> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pspp-users
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Pspp-users mailing list
>>> Pspp-***@gnu.org
>>> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pspp-users
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Pspp-users mailing list
>> Pspp-***@gnu.org
>> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pspp-users
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pspp-users mailing list
> Pspp-***@gnu.org
> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pspp-users
Matthias Faeth
2015-11-07 11:05:46 UTC
Permalink
we have discussed the issue TABLES v CTABLES before. Regardless of the
(dis-)advantages of the commands, in my opinion we should opt for CTABLES
because this is were SPSS stands now. PSPP should mirrow SPSS and not use
syntax that SPSS has abandoned.

Matthias FÀth
Im Mediapark 12
50670 Köln
t: 0221-2907973
m: 0171-9832175
e: ***@gmx.de

2015-11-06 19:47 GMT+01:00 Frans Houweling <***@email.it>:

> Hi all,
> I am not one of the - bless them - developers. I am a old TABLES user.
> Lately (20 years or so) the output is not considered "presentation quality"
> anymore. So I find myself exporting the TABLES output in order to get it
> into Microsoft Office stuff, where AGGREGATE + SAVE TRANSLATE would in fact
> be a shorter track.
> So my question is: why do you consider CTABLES such a useful feature? I
> don't want to fuel any argument, just understand if workarounds exist or
> could be more easily developed.
> Regards
> frans
>
>
> On 06/11/2015 19:00, Robert Lutener wrote:
>
>> There is no interest from the developers to do this. A while back
>> someone even offered to put down $500 of their own money and others
>> volunteered a few hundred each on top to bring this about but it was stated
>> that there is no interest from the developers to implement this
>> functionality. Which is kind of weird because CTABLES is the key reason
>> why the Canadian government uses SPSS at CRA and a few other departments.
>> For their stats stuff they typically use R or Stata.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Matthias Faeth" <***@gmx.de>
>> To: "robertl" <***@consumerscan.ca>
>> Cc: "ftr" <***@free.fr>, "pspp-users" <pspp-***@gnu.org>
>> Sent: Friday, November 6, 2015 9:32:53 AM
>> Subject: Re: Multi response sets in PSPP
>>
>> I strongly support Robert's view. However, the maintainers seem to be more
>> interested in statistics than plain old tabulation. Has anyone an idea how
>> to implement even a stripped down version of CTABLES?
>>
>> Matthias FÀth
>> Im Mediapark 12
>> 50670 Köln
>> t: 0221-2907973
>> m: 0171-9832175
>> e: ***@gmx.de
>>
>> 2015-11-06 18:06 GMT+01:00 Robert Lutener <***@consumerscan.ca>:
>>
>> CTABLES is probably the most valuable feature of SPSS and is used by the
>>> vast majority of people that buy the SPSS license. It is a real shame
>>> that
>>> PSPP doesn't have CTABLES as this would be a major factor in more
>>> widespread use of this open source solution.
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "ftr" <***@free.fr>
>>> To: "pspp-users" <pspp-***@gnu.org>
>>> Sent: Friday, November 6, 2015 5:56:23 AM
>>> Subject: Re: Multi response sets in PSPP
>>>
>>> On 06/11/2015 11:24, Michał Dubrawski wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> If the information here is up to date then we have MRSETS command
>>> implemented in PSPP
>>> http://www.gnu.org/software/pspp/manual/pspp.html#MRSETS
>>>
>>> Is there any way to display these MRSETS in the PSPP output - frequences,
>>> percentages or in corss tabs? I'm only using thses MRSETS in SPSS in
>>> CTables. I am aware that CTables are not implemented in PSPP and since it
>>> is very complicated won't rather be implemented in the nearest future.
>>>
>>> If it is not possible to display multi response, maybe implementation of
>>> MULT RESPONSE command would be a solution? Is it possoble to implement
>>> it?
>>>
>>> It is has an option to display frequences, percentages and even cross
>>> tabulation. I think that it would be very useful for users, what do you
>>> think?
>>>
>>> Thanks again to all the developers and people involved with PSPP project
>>> for all your work.
>>>
>>> kind regards,
>>>
>>> Michał Dubrawski
>>>
>>> Hi Michal,
>>>
>>> survey analyst NEED methods to study multiple-response variables. So I
>>> strongly support the idea to implement a Mult Response command.
>>>
>>> The help text ends with this cryptic sentence:
>>>
>>>
>>> Otherwise, multiple response sets are currently used only by third party
>>> software.
>>> Dear maintainers, would you please be so kind to explain which third
>>> party
>>> software is meant ?
>>>
>>> TIA
>>> -ftr
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Pspp-users mailing list
>>> Pspp-***@gnu.org
>>> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pspp-users
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Pspp-users mailing list
>>> Pspp-***@gnu.org
>>> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pspp-users
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>> Pspp-users mailing list
>> Pspp-***@gnu.org
>> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pspp-users
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pspp-users mailing list
> Pspp-***@gnu.org
> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pspp-users
>
Matej Kovacic
2015-11-09 20:02:05 UTC
Permalink
Hi,

> There is no interest from the developers to do this. A while back
> someone even offered to put down $500 of their own money and others
> volunteered a few hundred each on top to bring this about but it was

It seems that bounty offers would not solve the basic problem. The basic
problem is, there is no enough developers. And majority of us here are
not developers, so we cannot really help.

Maybe we should start actively looking for new developers?

Or maybe hire one (maybe from India)?

Regards,

Matej
--
PGP Fingerprint: D241 F62F 8FB7 8E1B 1944 5D71 0A53 196C D360 BBE2
PGP Key:
http://keyserver.ubuntu.com/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x0A53196CD360BBE2
Nigel Brown
2015-11-09 20:43:22 UTC
Permalink
> On 10 Nov 2015, at 6:02 am, Matej Kovacic <***@owca.info> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
>> There is no interest from the developers to do this. A while back
>> someone even offered to put down $500 of their own money and others
>> volunteered a few hundred each on top to bring this about but it was
>
> It seems that bounty offers would not solve the basic problem. The basic
> problem is, there is no enough developers. And majority of us here are
> not developers, so we cannot really help.
>
> Maybe we should start actively looking for new developers?

Or perhaps start a different paradigm for adding function to PSPP (still need developers but maybe fewer):
The big advantage of SPSS in my eyes was and is ease of use so why not focus on the front-end role of PSPP and
put developer time there and leave the backend processing to R-Project for the calculating side of the task.
That is, develop a general hook from PSPP into R (?start with generating R batch files and then bring R output back into PSPP)
and focus on PSPP commands to drive that hook?

There is an approach to pivot tables in R http://www.rforexcelusers.com/make-pivottable-in-r/ <http://www.rforexcelusers.com/make-pivottable-in-r/> which could perhaps be a starter for basic CTABLES back-end functionality?

Regards
Nigel

>
> Or maybe hire one (maybe from India)?
>
> Regards,
>
> Matej
> --
> PGP Fingerprint: D241 F62F 8FB7 8E1B 1944 5D71 0A53 196C D360 BBE2
> PGP Key:
> http://keyserver.ubuntu.com/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x0A53196CD360BBE2
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pspp-users mailing list
> Pspp-***@gnu.org
> https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pspp-users
Charles Johnson
2015-11-09 20:55:43 UTC
Permalink
________________________________
> Subject: Re: finding new developers
> From: ***@internode.on.net
> Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2015 06:43:22 +1000
> To: ***@owca.info
> CC: pspp-***@gnu.org
>
> Or perhaps start a different paradigm for adding function to PSPP
> (still need developers but maybe fewer):
> The big advantage of SPSS in my eyes was and is ease of use so why not
> focus on the front-end role of PSPP and
> put developer time there and leave the backend processing to R-Project
> for the calculating side of the task.
> That is, develop a general hook from PSPP into R (?start with
> generating R batch files and then bring R output back into PSPP)
> and focus on PSPP commands to drive that hook?
>

See: http://www.gnu.org/software/pspp/faq.html#Merge

I think you'd better ask for a user-friendly GUI to R developers, although there are several.
In my experience, pspp works much faster than alternatives using large data, which is an advantage. For that and other reasons I think pspp should be further developed.  I agree that PSPPire must be on par with pspp, but the advantage here is that pspp commands are easy to use by knowledgeable SPSS largely unchanged.

> There is an approach to pivot tables in
> R http://www.rforexcelusers.com/make-pivottable-in-r/ which could
> perhaps be a starter for basic CTABLES back-end functionality?
>
> Regards
> Nigel
>


CJT
Nigel Brown
2015-11-09 21:15:37 UTC
Permalink
> On 10 Nov 2015, at 6:55 am, Charles Johnson <***@outlook.com> wrote:
>
> ________________________________
>> Subject: Re: finding new developers
>> From: ***@internode.on.net
>> Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2015 06:43:22 +1000
>> To: ***@owca.info
>> CC: pspp-***@gnu.org
>>
>> Or perhaps start a different paradigm for adding function to PSPP
>> (still need developers but maybe fewer):
>> The big advantage of SPSS in my eyes was and is ease of use so why not
>> focus on the front-end role of PSPP and
>> put developer time there and leave the backend processing to R-Project
>> for the calculating side of the task.
>> That is, develop a general hook from PSPP into R (?start with
>> generating R batch files and then bring R output back into PSPP)
>> and focus on PSPP commands to drive that hook?
>>
>
> See: http://www.gnu.org/software/pspp/faq.html#Merge <http://www.gnu.org/software/pspp/faq.html#Merge>

In the context of the FAQ then that says “If you want an import/export filter or some other feature to help PSPP complement your favourite program, then please talk to us about it.”
Could we talk about an export filter to R (I like using PSPP for data clean up but R for factor analysis) and an import filter from R output? A configurable export/import filter to help PSPP complement R would be my request in the context of the FAQ sentiment.

Regards
Nigel

>
> I think you'd better ask for a user-friendly GUI to R developers, although there are several.
> In my experience, pspp works much faster than alternatives using large data, which is an advantage. For that and other reasons I think pspp should be further developed. I agree that PSPPire must be on par with pspp, but the advantage here is that pspp commands are easy to use by knowledgeable SPSS largely unchanged.
>
>> There is an approach to pivot tables in
>> R http://www.rforexcelusers.com/make-pivottable-in-r/ which could
>> perhaps be a starter for basic CTABLES back-end functionality?
>>
>> Regards
>> Nigel
>>
>
>
> CJT
>
Alan Mead
2015-11-09 21:55:04 UTC
Permalink
On 11/9/2015 3:15 PM, Nigel Brown wrote:
> In the context of the FAQ then that says “If you want an import/export
> filter or some other feature to help PSPP complement your favourite
> program, then please talk to us about it.”
> Could we talk about an export filter to R (I like using PSPP for data
> clean up but R for factor analysis) and an import filter from R
> output? A configurable export/import filter to help PSPP complement R
> would be my request in the context of the FAQ sentiment.

Nigel,

I agree that I think SPSS/PSPP has some unique value for data cleaning.
I'm sure you can get things accomplished in R but I think it's easier in
SPSS/PSPP. (Although R has more varied missing data treatments.)

But what exactly do you mean about exporting to R? R already has the
foreign package that reads SPSS SAV files, so go ahead and do whatever
you want with the data and then use foreign to read the data into R.

The enormous irony is that the foreign package is built on code from
PSPP that Ben wrote.

If the foreign package needs updating, then bug that developer.

-Alan


--

Alan D. Mead, Ph.D.
President, Talent Algorithms Inc.

science + technology = better workers

+815.588.3846 (Office)
+267.334.4143 (Mobile)

http://www.alanmead.org

Announcing the Journal of Computerized Adaptive Testing (JCAT), a
peer-reviewed electronic journal designed to advance the science and
practice of computerized adaptive testing: http://www.iacat.org/jcat
Nigel Brown
2015-11-09 23:30:47 UTC
Permalink
Sent from my iPhone

> On 10 Nov 2015, at 7:55 AM, Alan Mead <***@alanmead.org> wrote:
>
>
>
>> On 11/9/2015 3:15 PM, Nigel Brown wrote:
>> In the context of the FAQ then that says “If you want an import/export filter or some other feature to help PSPP complement your favourite program, then please talk to us about it.”
>> Could we talk about an export filter to R (I like using PSPP for data clean up but R for factor analysis) and an import filter from R output? A configurable export/import filter to help PSPP complement R would be my request in the context of the FAQ sentiment.
>
> Nigel,
>
> I agree that I think SPSS/PSPP has some unique value for data cleaning. I'm sure you can get things accomplished in R but I think it's easier in SPSS/PSPP. (Although R has more varied missing data treatments.)
>
> But what exactly do you mean about exporting to R? R already has the foreign package that reads SPSS SAV files, so go ahead and do whatever you want with the data and then use foreign to read the data into R.
>
I have coworkers that could set up a gui based request in PSPP press a button that says <ok> and, without caring whether it was exported to R or another package and results imported, interpret the stats that come back. I don't think they would care to learn R for this site when they are in real SPSS when working at another place.
That is, if they can stay in a PSPP like environment they are more productive. It does make PSPP a bit like a front-end for 20% of the task but data cleaning and stats already in PSPP is 80% of what they need. The extra 20% varies from project to project so would be a big job to add the full breath of the 20% to PSPP.

Regards
Nigel


> The enormous irony is that the foreign package is built on code from PSPP that Ben wrote.
>
> If the foreign package needs updating, then bug that developer.
>
> -Alan
>
>
> --
>
> Alan D. Mead, Ph.D.
> President, Talent Algorithms Inc.
>
> science + technology = better workers
>
> +815.588.3846 (Office)
> +267.334.4143 (Mobile)
>
> http://www.alanmead.org
>
> Announcing the Journal of Computerized Adaptive Testing (JCAT), a
> peer-reviewed electronic journal designed to advance the science and
> practice of computerized adaptive testing: http://www.iacat.org/jcat
ftr
2015-11-09 21:20:24 UTC
Permalink
On 09/11/2015 21:55, Charles Johnson wrote:
> ________________________________
>> Subject: Re: finding new developers
>> From: ***@internode.on.net
>> Date: Tue, 10 Nov 2015 06:43:22 +1000
>> To: ***@owca.info
>> CC: pspp-***@gnu.org
>>
>> Or perhaps start a different paradigm for adding function to PSPP
>> (still need developers but maybe fewer):
>> The big advantage of SPSS in my eyes was and is ease of use so why not
>> focus on the front-end role of PSPP and
>> put developer time there and leave the backend processing to R-Project
>> for the calculating side of the task.
>> That is, develop a general hook from PSPP into R (?start with
>> generating R batch files and then bring R output back into PSPP)
>> and focus on PSPP commands to drive that hook?
>>
> See: http://www.gnu.org/software/pspp/faq.html#Merge
>
> I think you'd better ask for a user-friendly GUI to R developers, although there are several.
> In my experience, pspp works much faster than alternatives using large data, which is an advantage. For that and other reasons I think pspp should be further developed. I agree that PSPPire must be on par with pspp, but the advantage here is that pspp commands are easy to use by knowledgeable SPSS largely unchanged.
>
>> There is an approach to pivot tables in
>> R http://www.rforexcelusers.com/make-pivottable-in-r/ which could
>> perhaps be a starter for basic CTABLES back-end functionality?
>>
>> Regards
>> Nigel
>>
>
A major advantage of SPSS was and is its relative ease of use compared
to R.

You don't need to be a mechanic to drive a car and people will laugh at
you when you say: why should I know how to change the compression of my
engine? I want to go from here to there and not repare cars.

R in stats is like you to have be a mechanic.

When reading the R stats papers I often have the impression people do R
for the love of programming and not because they have to solve a
substantial question.

There are some GUI that allow you work without programming. Yes, but
their capacity is limited.

In SPSS you can easily switch between clicking & programming (sort of ).

PSPP should maintain that same competitive advantage.


- ftr
John Darrington
2015-11-10 06:21:58 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, Nov 09, 2015 at 10:20:24PM +0100, ftr wrote:

When reading the R stats papers I often have the impression
people do R for the love of programming and not because they have
to solve a substantial question.

Programming is about solving questions. Substantial ones and other ones.

One thing that disappoints me with the omnipotence of computers today, is
the number of people who use them, without having a clue what the machine
is doing.

This is particularly important with statistical hypothesis testing. Having
calculated (say) a P-value - that value is useless unless you know what it
means under under what conditions it was generated.

I personally beleive that whatever way PSPP is developed, it should be
one that encourages the user to become more knowledgeable - not less
knowledgeable.


Just my $0.02

J'


--
Avoid eavesdropping. Send strong encryted email.
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Charles Johnson
2015-11-09 21:10:00 UTC
Permalink
----------------------------------------
> Subject: finding new developers
> To: pspp-***@gnu.org
> From: ***@owca.info
> Date: Mon, 9 Nov 2015 21:02:05 +0100
>
> Hi,
>
>> There is no interest from the developers to do this. A while back
>> someone even offered to put down $500 of their own money and others
>> volunteered a few hundred each on top to bring this about but it was
>
> It seems that bounty offers would not solve the basic problem. The basic
> problem is, there is no enough developers. And majority of us here are
> not developers, so we cannot really help.
>
> Maybe we should start actively looking for new developers?
>
> Or maybe hire one (maybe from India)?
>

All are viable alternatives.

- I proposed to petition to incorporate PSPP, for the priority projects of the Free Software Foundation. http://www.fsf.org/campaigns/priority-projects/

- Another way is to make it visible through publications, blogs, Facebook, Twitter (and other social networks). Volunteers interested?

- To campaign on the website of PSPP.

I am delighted that the community is active, and how Users can encourage the development of this application (also can translate documents, create graphics, etc.).

CJT

Note: I'm interested in creating a public Telegram channel for news from PSPP (https://telegram.org/blog/channels), which include announcements of new versions and bug fixes and other things of interest.
Does anyone here use it actively?
Ben Pfaff
2015-11-06 16:37:57 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, Nov 06, 2015 at 11:24:18AM +0100, Michał Dubrawski wrote:
> If the information here is up to date then we have MRSETS command
> implemented in PSPP
> http://www.gnu.org/software/pspp/manual/pspp.html#MRSETS
>
> Is there any way to display these MRSETS in the PSPP output - frequences,
> percentages or in corss tabs? I'm only using thses MRSETS in SPSS in
> CTables. I am aware that CTables are not implemented in PSPP and since it
> is very complicated won't rather be implemented in the nearest future.

PSPP commands don't use MRSETS, except to view and modify them and GET
and SAVE them.
Michał Dubrawski
2015-11-06 17:00:53 UTC
Permalink
Thanks a lot Ben for your quick answer!

Have you considered MULT RESPONSE command implementation?

Like I wrote before today it is has an option to display frequences,
percentages and even cross tabulation and I think that it would be very
useful to have it in PSPP, but I'm just asking.

kind regards,

Michał Dubrawski
6 lis 2015 17:37 "Ben Pfaff" <***@cs.stanford.edu> napisał(a):

> On Fri, Nov 06, 2015 at 11:24:18AM +0100, Michał Dubrawski wrote:
> > If the information here is up to date then we have MRSETS command
> > implemented in PSPP
> > http://www.gnu.org/software/pspp/manual/pspp.html#MRSETS
> >
> > Is there any way to display these MRSETS in the PSPP output - frequences,
> > percentages or in corss tabs? I'm only using thses MRSETS in SPSS in
> > CTables. I am aware that CTables are not implemented in PSPP and since it
> > is very complicated won't rather be implemented in the nearest future.
>
> PSPP commands don't use MRSETS, except to view and modify them and GET
> and SAVE them.
>
Juan Zuluaga
2015-11-07 07:27:48 UTC
Permalink
I'll add US$100 to that bounty.
> There is no interest from the developers to do this.  A while back someone even offered to put down $500 of their own money and others volunteered a few hundred each on top to bring this about ...
Harry Thijssen
2015-11-10 12:38:31 UTC
Permalink
> > Maybe we should start actively looking for new developers?
>

With more than 20.000 downloads of the latest MSWindows build, from
sourceforge only, there must be a large userbase. I know the version is
replicated to university networks and on a lot of download sites on
internet. So most likely the total number of downloads/users is much higher.

As I know that PSPP is used on many universities around the world I still
wonder why there is no participation from these universities or students. A
nice initiative of google is the summer of code which will be held in 2016
again. Students can earn up to 5500 US dollar when spending their summer
holiday on coding for an openSource project, in this case PSPP.

https://developers.google.com/open-source/gsoc/faq

This can be promoted by list members at all kinds of educational
institutes. Maybe a student-developer steps forward and will it a try.

Universities could also make it possible to build a PSPP feature as part of
the study of ICT students.

For companies/governements it could be a good idea to pay for developing
(or let it develop in house) the functionality they miss in PSPP. This
could be much cheaper for them as buying a lot of SPSS licenses.

The key in this is a volunteer user community which promotes PSPP.

Have fun
.
Charles Johnson
2015-11-15 04:36:18 UTC
Permalink
----------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2015 21:14:17 +0100
From: ***@darrington.wattle.id.au
To: ***@gmail.com
Subject: Re: RE: finding new developers
CC: pspp-***@gnu.org


On Tue, Nov 10, 2015 at 01:38:31PM +0100, Harry Thijssen wrote:

As I know that PSPP is used on many universities around the world I still
wonder why there is no participation from these universities or students. A


There have been a few instaances of universities funding pspp development.
In fact, the recently added Graphs menu was requested and paid for by
the University of Houston Downtown. In the past, various companies have
paid for special features to be added too - notably the perl module was
a contracted feature.


But regular funding, to sustain continual development is something we've never
come close to seeing.

J'

How a university may contact you to request this type of work?

It is through the developer mailing list or through the FSF?

--
CJT
Harry Thijssen
2015-11-13 21:25:26 UTC
Permalink
2015-11-13 21:14 GMT+01:00 John Darrington <***@darrington.wattle.id.au>:

> On Tue, Nov 10, 2015 at 01:38:31PM +0100, Harry Thijssen wrote:
>
> As I know that PSPP is used on many universities around the world I
> still
> wonder why there is no participation from these universities or
> students. A
>
>
> There have been a few instaances of universities funding pspp development.
> In fact, the recently added Graphs menu was requested and paid for by
> the University of Houston Downtown.


Nice, I was just building a new MSWindows ReleaseCandidate. They can test
there feature if they want.

I guess the big problem is that people see free software (some even call it
opensource) not as free in the sence of freedom but in the sence of free
beer. Eradicating this misconception needs a lot of free software
ambassadors.

Have fun
Frans Houweling
2015-11-13 20:51:03 UTC
Permalink
_______________________________________________
Pspp-users mailing list
Pspp-***@gnu.org
https://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/pspp-users
Harry Thijssen
2015-11-15 15:12:05 UTC
Permalink
2015-11-15 5:36 GMT+01:00 Charles Johnson <***@outlook.com>:

> ----------------------------------------
> Date: Fri, 13 Nov 2015 21:14:17 +0100
> From: ***@darrington.wattle.id.au
> To: ***@gmail.com
> Subject: Re: RE: finding new developers
> CC: pspp-***@gnu.org
>
>
> On Tue, Nov 10, 2015 at 01:38:31PM +0100, Harry Thijssen wrote:
>
> As I know that PSPP is used on many universities around the world I
> still
> wonder why there is no participation from these universities or
> students. A
>
>
> There have been a few instaances of universities funding pspp development.
> In fact, the recently added Graphs menu was requested and paid for by
> the University of Houston Downtown. In the past, various companies have
> paid for special features to be added too - notably the perl module was
> a contracted feature.
>
>
> But regular funding, to sustain continual development is something we've
> never
> come close to seeing.
>
> J'
>
> How a university may contact you to request this type of work?
>
> It is through the developer mailing list or through the FSF?
>
> --
> CJT
>

I am not a PSPP developer, but if somebody thinks a new MSWindows build
might be useful for some reason they can ask on the list,

Have fun
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